"Deck Talk"

JonPatton · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 157

Apparently it has become wrong to talk about decks for a particular format while a tournament is forming.

Three main points here, which I'll go through one by one:
a) The rule is not in the room rules, so I believe it's fair game to both criticize its implementation;
b) The rule is counterintuitive;
and c) Implementing this rule should not change the outcome of a tournament.

a)
Magic league can structure its room rules however it likes. However, they should post this in the room rules if they want to implement it. If I am a nonfrequent visitor to the chat room but have played on the league since 1999 (prior to this account, which I think I started in 2005) and haven't yet heard of the rule, then I think it's reasonable to be surprised when a judge chides me in the room without explaining the rule beyond "People get yelled at for saying 'I'm playing X' and 'Stop arguing with me.' "

b)
Furthermore, there is nothing intuitive about this rule. People go into a chat room to talk about their decks. You walk into Friday night magic and show your deck off to some friends. This is a social game. People talk about decks all the time in the abstract in the room, meaning that several chatroom users could be in the middle of a type two discussion when someone forms a tournament, at which point they would be expected to cease their conversation for the duration of the tournament.

c)
A semi-reasonable argument can be posed that deck talk would unfairly affect the results of a tournament. However, in most tournaments, many decks are already known. In type two right now, you know you will face a Blink deck, a Teachings deck, and a R/G deck. During the formation of a T2 tournament, if players argue that R/G beats Teachings and Teachings will be heavily played, they aren't saying anything that any competent T2 player does not already know. This problem came up when I was watching a Worlds Top Eight precon tournament form and speculated that a deck from Mirroden block might be good against Tinker. There are a limited number of decks available for this tournament. There is no secret technology. There are metagame choices, but you cannot know what anyone will actually send to the judges to play. Therefore, there is no way that deck talking can affect the outcome of this tournament.

A second argument could be made following this that the deck talk might unfairly skew a player's deck choice after he hears many people talking about a particular deck. Many people are saying that they will play Tinker, so the player chooses Tinker, believing it to be the strongest deck. Many people are talking about Teachings, so he chooses R/G, believing it to be a metagame choice. This is certainly the player's fault for playing a deck based on what people were talking about in the room, and if he does well or poorly with it, it should be a reflection of his play skill.

A third argument can be made that some people in the room are unhappy with deck talking. What can be the reason for their unhappiness? If they have a super-secret deck, they are under no obligation to tell anyone they are using it. If they are playing a deck that is a glass cannon, then they knew the risk of playing such a deck going into any tournament.

I ask for a fair dialog with the league, both players and judges, regarding this policy. (Yes, that means don't just answer with "Because they said so" or you will look silly.)

Manipulation · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 294 Location: Oxnard

I would think its okay to talk about your own deck, if you want to tell people how you've got some cool interactions or something, that should be fine. But harassing someone else into telling you their deck is not okay...

If people can talk about the meta in a tourney room IRL, they should be able to do so on M-L.

kittykat · Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 18

the problem that was being had in the chatroom was not of people saying what they were playing but someone named leonin naming what everyone else was playing by looking at the security codes for mws

Jacois · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 488

JonPatton, I'm confused. What exactly happened? What rules are you talking about? I have never heard anything that relates to what the hell you're talking about.

Please explain the circumstances that prompted you to post this. Thx.

Daveslusher · Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 202

I had kindly told him to stop decktalking. Aparently he took it way too seriously and decided to post this.
Look it just doesnt seem right to give hints and stuff to upcoming players so they can change their board within 3 seconds of the tournament closing. While this is thought out your just ranting about something you can easily give up.

oh wel l there goes my chance of being a judge >.>

Kaesh · Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 230

No decktalking rule is pretty much the last unreasonable one left from the planeswalker.com (the original online league, existing circa 1997-1999) set, copied by every online league ever since Wink

JonPatton · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 157

rockshard · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 112

You lost me at "anti-chafing nipple tape".

JonPatton · Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 157

Well, at least it was the last thing in the post.

rockshard · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 112

Indeed.

All jokes aside, you make a good point.