Vein Drinker + Fatestitcher.

toor · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 19

I have vein drinker and fatestitcher.

My opponent has 2 woolly thoctars. Can i shoot one, respond with untap and shot the other killing both?

Im 80% sure I can, but wanted to get a confirmation from a judge. It actually came up in my draft last night.

stone_d · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 48

When the second ability tries to resolve, vein drinker tries to deal damage but it isn't in play anymore. So it deals nothing I THINK.

Kinda like if you kill the creature from souls fire. It doesn't deal damage.
(still resolves since 1 of the 2 targets is usually still in play/legal)

edit: I was wrong, i shouldn't have compared it with souls fire because it says target creature in play. Vein drinkers second ability will use last know information.

twodioz · Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 105

I understand what you are trying to do, but it doesn't work if the Drinker dies while shooting a creature. If there had been another activation on the stack, the activation would deal 0 damage, due to the creature no longer being in play.

If somehow you could boost it's toughness (giant growth etc.) this situation would allow you to kill both creatures. Your drinker would still die though.

ACM · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 122

Not if he can boost the Drinker's toughness to 10 Wink

Serigado · Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

You can respond untapping, before the 1st trigger resolves, but if the Vein Drinker is not present when the 2nd trigger resolves, damage won't be dealt.
If Vein was a 6/6 it'd be ok. But that way you wouldn't have to play it in response..

Maybe i'm wrong...

toor · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 19

How is this different then Redcap coming into play and then being bounced?

twodioz · Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 105

Recap uses the last known information for the CIP... That is why the trick works with nameless inversion.

coolcreep · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 410

ACM · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 122

Because the ability makes a creature deal damage to one creature, and that creature deal damage back. If one creature is not in play when the ability resolves, the ability will not be able to affect it, and it will neither deal nor be dealt damage.

toor · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 19

Judge confirmed it uses last known information and kills both thoctars.

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 346

Just in case there is any confusion, the Vein Drinker will destroy both Woolly Thoctars. It doesn't have to be in play to deal damage.

Last Known Information will be used.

Serigado · Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

So... forgetting about the fatesticher... If Vein is set to deal some damage to a creature, but in response is killed, he'll deal damage equal to his power when he left play?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 346

Carnubak · Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 30

A quick search on Crystal Keep yields this for the Vein Drinker:

wyvernmonarc · Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 10

now for the real question:

how many bobas did u swindle orie for?