red death style deck

warwizard87 · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

// Lands
2 [DIS] Blood Crypt
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [A] Badlands
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [4E] Swamp (2)
2 [IN] Swamp (3)
2 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [10E] Hypnotic Specter
4 [SHM] Ashenmoor Gouger
4 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [R] Dark Ritual
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [ON] Smother
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [US] Duress

this is basicly a update to the old red death decks by moving slightly into dragon stompy teratory.

card by card

hippie: this guy is best cast on turn 1 or 2 after thathe is mearly okay on 1 or 2 he is a beast that controls the table and demands a removal spell.

gouger: this guy is a 4/4 for 3 that beats most creatures up in this format.
cost effective.

demigod: 5/4 flying haste owns everyhting, so what if he costs 5 i can drop him as soon as turn 3 (normaly) and he just smashes shit.

dark confidant: bob is just a staple, and card advantage.

magus of the moon: this guy can just win games sometimes.

jitte: seems good i just never draw it.

mox: speed is important.

dark ritual: see mox.

thoughtsize: discard that can hit creatures is important vs goblins and other decks.

smother: kills goyf and most common creatures played.

hymn: 2 cards randomly for 2 mana is pretty strong.

basicly play out guys fast and disrupt ride cost effective dudes to win.

not totaly sure on the matchup percentages yet.

couble of possabel cards for side i have conciderd is perish for threshold and artifact removal possably.

any thoughts on the deck?

b4il3y · Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 8

Good deck...

The only thing that scares me is turning up a demigod on Bob at the wrong time.

warwizard87 · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

that has happend a few times but most decks with bob also pack things like fow and in t2 alot used to pack greater gargadon as well. so yeah when i am low life it sucks but early on the card advantage is well worth the risk.

Ggerg · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 487

with only 4 demigods, the odds of flipping one in a game are actually very low. easily worth it

i know nothing about legacy...

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 454

Big negs should be in that deck. I personally do not like hyppies too much, but to each their own. Big neg is usually a way more effective turn one play with a ritual than a hyppie, but then again you haven't mentioned anything about your metagame or matches.

warwizard87 · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

well negator is nice and all but i have seen way to many burn decks, and decks that include lightning boult or even fire/ice. turn 1 negator just dies to all of those + takes your perms with him.
I feel that gouger more then makes up fo the loss of negator however, it is possbale to run him inthe side vs more controlish matchups with out burn or lots of blockers.

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 454

Uhm.

You are a dunce: if you leave gouger in and you take out hyppie for big negs, you get twice the opportunities for laying a fatty on the second turn. Generally, you don't play negators on the first turn against burn and if you are on the first game of a match and you happen to get your negator burned: oh shit, you lose a land and a creature in a deck with an obscenely efficient casting cost curve. Seriously, enlighten yourself and read a primer on the deck at a legacy forum before presuming to know anything about the archetype.

While negator may be a preference card, judging by your list, there are a number of things about the archetype you need to learn.

warwizard87 · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

CalebD · Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 43

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 454

Okay, so it was a bad day at the office, all apologies.

Anyway, if you go over the pretty massive thread on red death, one of the general themes people that play(ed) the deck exhaustively reached the conclusion that goyf has largely caused the deck's demise. I really, really don't like the smothers because one out of every two or so decks you face will be XXXXX stompy, which means chalices for one or two occurring asap. Snuff out is a far, far better option.

I read through the big red death thread's more recent posts and started to discover that people jumped off the red death wagon and into the sexy Eva Green wagon.

Still though, along the lines of my love for the neg; with snuff out and cheap discard a first turn negator is awesome. People that haven't used him very much tend to freak out at the idea of having to sac permanents for damage, which is understandable. I am not saying you haven't used him, but I am going to say that I have probably used him more.

Your deck is also missing sinkhole, which is quite detrimental to the deck. Jitte is generally used for a sideboard slot in matches like goblins and survival(a really bad matchup for sui black style decks...anyway). The deck is also missing one of the bigger redeeming factors of red death above other similar decks which is chain lightning and lightning bolt. Yes they were largely used as removal, though they are also really, really good reach considering the amount of tomb stompy decks there are around.

Magus of the moon is cute, but quite frankly most good legacy metagames' players don't fall for moon effects that easy unless they are crammed down their throats early(ie: run more than four...and have a way to cast them on the first/second turn consistently) and they also tend to run more basics now than before.

To be more concise though; the point that I am getting at is considering what sort of build you have going, you would be far better suited to run something like Eva Green. You may have Demigods in this deck, however the most common removal in the format is swords and cards like deed and EE. Swords means that the god's secondary ability isn't really that helpful and the game should be close to over by the time they get a deed out and have five to activate it. The point of my mentioning this is that Eva Green runs Tombstalker, which essentially has a casting cost of three in the deck, which means that most of the time you will end up doing more damage with a tombstalker than you would a demigod...furthermore, you will be playing the stalker so early typically that your opponent will still be reeling from your early disruption and the odds are against them drawing an adequate answer for your stalker, as opposed to the fifth turn when a demigod will often hit play.

If you are set on playing Br sui, then I am going to have to say add more disruption(sinkhole and another thoughtseize), drop the chromos for more actual spells that do something, turn the confidants into shades and turn the demigods into tombstalkers.

Overall though, with your list in mind, I would like to know why it should be played over a deck like say...demon/dragon stompy or Eva Green(which was how sui black has seemed to evolve once goyf made his mark on the format).

Finally here is a list that I would think would be a bit more workable:

4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Ashenmoor Gouger
4 Tombstalker
4 Phyrexian Negator

4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Snuff Out
4 sinkhole

4 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta
4 wasteland
3 badlands
5 Swamp
1 Bayou/swamp maybe?

SB

3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Seal of Primordium/pithing needle/Slaughter pact if splash is silly?

The big thing that I kept thinking while typing out my off the cuff list is why is this deck packing red if there is no room for burn and no fast/consistent moon effects? Goyf and the sideboard options green allows are HUGE right now. Then again, using original red death lists might be good because everyone has a huge boner for Ad Nauseum right now, so you know what that means: fast negators and bolts are going to be fucking awesome for a few months until people go back to playing their normal pet decks and Ad Nauseum just gets added to the long list of storm decks in the format.

God I make long posts sometimes.

Oh and I don't like confidants in decks that aim to win within five turns or so. If you look at lists and threads on different websites, you will see that this is a very common sentiment and practice: to be short about it: Bob competes for disruption and efficient beats to be played in the first few turns in the game. generally you want to be playing first turn rituals into hyppies, hymns, thoughseizes and second turns on sinkholes, wastelands, seals (huge against chalices, deeds and counterbalances) and shades or goyfs and third turns playing a tombstalker and having an opponent scoop because they are screwed. Obviously ideal, but I am going to vouch for Eva Green being extremely consistent, it's strategy isn't too different from what red death's was and as you can see there isn't a helluvalotta of room for Bob to be played and actually really used in there. Bob is awesome in decks that need disruption and so forth to actually be played continuously, but suicide-style decks tend send a shit storm of disruption their opponent's way and ride a really efficient and huge fatty to victory while their opponent recovers. The biggest difference today is that people don't have to run creatures with huge draw backs anymore to effectively abuse this strategy.

Anyway, I'm going to go do something now.

Good luck with the deck, whichever direction you take it.